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Sick and Tired
One arcane point needs to be made about the indians: those indians, who in 1600's lived in the territories now known as the US, actually took this land by force from the indians, who came before them in the original migration across the Bering straight, which was dry land at the time. As tribes crossed from Asia to America, they pushed the earlier tribes further down, until the entire continent was filled.
regarding congressman McKinney: the question should be: is the country better served allowing people like her to participate in the government, or should unruly people like that be brought up slowly to a level of civility that will eventually qualify them for full benefits of citizernship.
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Sick and Tired
wingwiper,
you mistakenly mentioned KT as the one who described the migration of indians through the Americas. I was the one who addressed the point. I go by archeological and paleontological data. Based on that data (and I'm not an expert, only an informed amature, so if anyone has more precise data, please correct me) the migrations occured around 20 thousand years ago from Asia. The age of the migrations is confirmed by carbon dated artifacts. The fact that American Indians are of Asian origin is confirmed by cultural and anatomical similarities between themselves and the current inhabitants of the far east. The fact that migrations occured in the matter I described (with successive displacements) is again indicated by archeological evidence where cultural artifacts similar to thouse used by the tribes that inhabit South America can be found in Alaska, showing the rout that the South American tribes took to their current homeland. The bottom line is, the history of America's prior to the arrival of white man is steeped in conflict and warfare. White Man brought nothing new to the continent other than gunpowder, horses and superior military skills.
Your point that Americas separated from Europe (and Africa for that matter) is correct, except that occured tens of millions of years ago and prior to the evolution of mankind.
About your point on "hate" and scalping, I think you're probably joking, so I'm not responding to that.
Having said all of this, killing of indians outside of legitimate warfare was obviously a heinous crime and the folks that did the needless killings are burning in hell as we speak.
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Sick and Tired
speaking of Grand Canyon,
Didn't FDR have a plan for filling it up in one of his psychotic hydroelectric dam plans? Good thing it never happened.
but I'm off the topic completely, so have a nice day!
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Sick and Tired
So I recon destruction of natural wonders for the sake of energy is not your idea of good land stewardship?
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Sick and Tired
No that would be a bummer.....
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Well, then I put the attempts to suck the last remaining drop of oil out of the ANWR in the same category. Considering that those reserves would be a mere drop in the bucket of total US oil consumption, I see no economic or political benefit for developing those oilfields and destroying one of the last remaining wildlife areas in the WORLD in the process. The oil will be sucked out and gone in less than 10 years, but the tundra will not recover ever. I think the protection of ANWR is the only good reason for the existence of the democrat party.
Speaking of renewable energy. If we could only harvest all the hot air coming out of Washington, we could probably heat the entire North East the whole winter.
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Sick and Tired
Based on my limited knowledge of human nature, the American Indians were a peaceful gentle bunch who smoked their pipe and sung kumbaya. Hasn't that been the trademark of human nature around the world?
Fact is, primitive societies, in a wast majority of cases, are violent. (then come to think of it, advanced societies are just as violent).
Bottom line is, I think the attempts to whitewash indian inequities are just as regrettable as attempts to whitewash slavery.
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Sick and Tired
Wingwiper,
Peters is right: corn was grown in large quantities in the North East by the indians. Some of the earliest European adventurers who made their way over the appalachian mountains were astounded to see square miles of corn grown by the indians in the ohio river valley. That's a recorded undeniable fact.
I think to deny the fact that indians cultivated the soil in the north east is a bit out of line with the recorded evidence. The fact that Eastern indians didn't settle in one spot is explained by the fact that their poor agrarian skills depleated the soils so that they could not continue to cultivate the same spot for many years. And, of course, hunting being their main occupation, they had to move around to find game as well. The fact that we're arguing about simple basics of our not so distant history is a bad reflection on the education system.
I stand by my assertion that indians were brutal in their warfare practices. We have enough evidence of total massacres including women and children on the American frontiers to substantiate my point. One admirable thing about Indians which distinguished them favorably vs. the whites was that they never raped the women, at worst they abducted them and adopted them into their tribes. I think a re-reading of the Leatherstocking Tales is in order for all of us as a starting point to learn more about the American Indians. More importantly, there are also some interesting first hand accounts of experiences of white settlres with the indians, such as "The Captivity of Mrs. Johnson" written in 1747 by a woman who was kidnapped by indians from Fort. # 4 on the New Hampshire frontier.
"Primitive culture" is a term used to describe the culture of hunters and gatherer's. It should not be viewed as a pejorative term; it's literal meaning is "primal", that is "original", that which preceeded other forms of cultures, such as early agrarian and so forth. I personally do not think modern industrial societies offer any more in terms of happiness to mankind as opposed to the primitive or early agrarian societies.
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Sick and Tired
duke
tell that to our beloved president who gave some of his CAMPAIGN SPEACHES in Spanish. And that's a REPUBLICAN president. The city of New York prints their voting ballots in some 7 languages. The US is degenerating into the tower of Babel right in front of our eyes. Like I said somewhere before, the people in the red states don't see the problem in their towns so they don't think it exists, so they're not doing a thing to stop it. I just hope people remember how their senators and congressmen voted on the current immigration bills and vote in November accordingly.
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Sick and Tired
duke,
how do you like it in KY? I'm in NJ and it's no better than CT, as far as regulations and interlopers. plenty of petty corruption, too. The only thing I like about where I am is open farmland. I looked at moving to KY, somewhere around Lexington, but the jobs just are not there for someone in my profession.
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Sick and Tired
Duke,
Thanks for the tip. I have family commitments here in NJ, but hey, who knows what the future holds.
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Sick and Tired
Peters,
I don't pretend in the least to be an expert on American Indian history, but if your knowledge of Indian history is based on the Indial folklore, rather than on historical and archeological evidence, one may say you only have one half of the story.
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